Measure What Matters – A Podcast for Marketers is where we talk with B2C/D2C marketing leaders about their decision-making process in a business function that is constantly evolving. They share their point of view on marketing, business trends, and the lessons that they’ve learned about how to better navigate the changing landscape. Join us if you’re ready to learn how to better focus on measuring what matters when it comes to your marketing efforts.
On this episode, we spoke with Taylor Loren who is the Director of Content Marketing at Later, the leading Instagram scheduler and social media marketing platform. Taylor shares her approach for creating content in a competitive space, how data helps guide her team's creative vision, and what content marketers should be keep top of mind as they explore new topics.
Here's a full transcript of my conversation with Taylor:
Charlie Grinnell: On this episode, I'm joined by Taylor Loren, Director of Content Marketing at Later. Thanks for joining me today.
Taylor Loren: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Charlie Grinnell: Likewise. I've been following you for a long time before we met in real life and I've been following your career for a while and so I think a good place for us to start is would you be able to share kind of how you got your start in marketing and how you ended up doing what you're doing today at Later?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, for sure. I mean it's kind of funny because I've been working in the B2B content marketing space for my entire career, so over 10 years. And almost all of that was specifically within the social media space. So it's very niche I guess. But it doesn't feel like I've been working in the same industry that whole time. Because that's what I love about social is it changes so much over time. So I actually dropped out of university and that's how I got started in marketing. I never thought, I never dreamed of working in business or marketing. I was very thought I was going to work on politics and all that stuff. But when I'm as a UBC, and this is like 12 years ago, I really loved a lot of my extracurricular activities and not so much the actual academic work.
Taylor Loren: So I started a blog when I was on campus with my friend and it kind of took off and I worked at the school newspaper and all of that was really promoting the content that we were creating through social media. And that's where I kind of realized okay this has more of a purpose than just connecting with your friends. That sounds so basic now, but in 2008, 2009 it was not very popular. Most businesses weren't on social media.
Taylor Loren: So I got internship at Hootsuite actually back when there was like 25 people working there and I loved it. I was doing social media, I was working, I was actually educating people about how to use social media, which is very similar to what I still do today. And that's when I kind of realized oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing with my life. So I got a job offer there. I didn't go back to school. I didn't think about that at all. I've just been working in social media and marketing ever since. So it's been really fun.
Charlie Grinnell: That's so interesting because I also dropped out of university. I don't hear a ton of people say they've dropped out of university and ended up to work in social, at least that I've met. I've worked with other people who have kind of stumbled into social, but they finish their degree. And so I think it's very unique to hear someone who also dropped out of university and ended up to go in and work on social. So that's really, really cool. Do you think that that dropout mentality, do you think that kind of helped you get to where you're at today?
Taylor Loren: Definitely. I mean I think that I have multiple years of a headstart around other people my age just because I was fully in the workforce working on super cutting edge stuff. I think that's definitely helped and I think the general mentality, I'm a very, again, I have no formal marketing training at all. Everything I know is just from teaching myself and so yeah. Now that you say that, I guess the dropout mentality would be like jumping into something and just starting instead of waiting for people to teach you about it and teaching yourself. Yeah, everything in my career I've had, that's how I've had to do it and that's why I think working in startups for me has been so fun because you learn so much just by having to wear four different hats in one single job and moving quickly. So it's like a real life university in a way I guess.
Charlie Grinnell: Just getting dropped off the deep end and see if you can swim. Is that it?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, exactly. And I think when you're working in a really small startup, people are not expecting you to know the answers to everything. People are expecting you to go outside your comfort zone and try new things and just figure it out and make it work. So it's kind of different expectations there.
Charlie Grinnell: Totally. I think that's actually a good segue into my next question. Weren't you the first marketing hire at Later?
Taylor Loren: Yes, I was.
Charlie Grinnell: And so being the first marketing hire at Later and you now leading content marketing there, when it comes to content, what role does content marketing play at Later?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, content marketing plays a really, really important part in not only our marketing strategy but our overall acquisition of customers. So up until about a year ago, content marketing was basically the only function of marketing that we were doing. And then now in the last year we've built on a growth marketing team and a product marketing team. But before that was really based around email, blog, social, and that was what not only drove our leads and stuff but that was our only way to get customers. So we still don't have a sales team or anything like that. So our explosive growth with our content and our brand has really been what's propelled the whole company to grow so quickly.
Taylor Loren: So I feel so honored to be a part of a company that really saw the value in content marketing and invested in that instead of ... Typically I think nowadays you see a lot of the opposite of things starting with from a paid perspective and then people are building onto the brand element and the content element afterwards. And we were actually really flipped in that we had the content and brand first and then we built the paid engine after.
Charlie Grinnell: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean it is a super smart strategy. What just struck me when hearing you speak about that is I found that a lot of people who talk about content marketing are very “artsy” or very “content-y”. I'm probably butchering the way that I say that. What I find so unique with you is you just went full business on me there. I think that's really, really interesting. Do you think that has given you kind of a unique advantage because just hearing you speak about how content ladders up into the business, that's something that I just haven't heard from a lot of content marketers that are talking about content.
Taylor Loren: Oh yeah. Anytime we are planning anything content-wise, we always go back to okay, how many customers is this going to drive? How many signups is this going to drive? Taking those estimations and then multiplying it by our lifetime value and then making sure that we're going to make money off of those initiatives in the long run. Was it always like that when I first started? No, I've definitely learned a lot. The whole pillar really of our content marketing strategy and our whole company really comes down to our blog. And that's been the main engine that's really kept everything going.
Taylor Loren: So when I started that later, we had a blog but they got about 30,000 sessions a month and that was all just from one blog post. So that was us. It was one blog post that did well on search, called Instagram bio. Nowadays we get two million sessions a month. The blog really exploded in the first year. I think even just within the first two or three months of me working there, we were already at over 100,000 sessions per month. And that was such a big deal to me at the time. And now I'm like oh that's nothing.
Taylor Loren: But yeah. And so I think just having so much ... having our blog be everywhere on search, like you're searching anything Instagram marketing related, like you're going to see later. And that's just a free discovery tool. Having all of our content be so ingrained with search has just allowed us to as that topic becomes more popular and more people are over the years searching Instagram marketing, more people are finding out about later what that was, having to spend any money on that.
Charlie Grinnell: Yeah, absolutely. And my next question, which I think fits right into this is, you're in a very competitive space, right? Instagram marketing is a super, super competitive niche to create content about. And hearing you kind of talk about the planning that goes into it, how do you decide on what to create?
Taylor Loren: You know, when Later I was starting out, I actually joined when we were called Latergramme way back in the day.
Charlie Grinnell: The OGs will remember.
Taylor Loren: Yes. And then we did a rebrand. So side note that has been really cool to be able to say ... I think that's probably the thing I'm most proud about from my career is just being able to say that you literally built a brand from nothing to what it is now. That's kind of cool. But yes. So how do we decide what to create? I think it's a mix. I would say generally my approach for a B2B company, but I think that B2B marketing gets such a bad rap sometimes for being boring or corporate. So we definitely try to take a little bit more of a B2C approach to our marketing because my philosophy is just at the end of the day, we're a business who's marketing to people who work at another business.
Taylor Loren: So you're really just having to have that marketing to another person mentality versus marketing to another business. So we try to stay inspired by a lot of the B2C trends that we see and working in the Instagram space, there's so much to stay inspired from. So I think that part of our decision making comes from looking at seeing like what really trendy Instagram companies are doing. We'll take inspiration from companies like Revolve or Musicians and things like that and coming up okay what are some unique things that we can do as a company that other companies aren't really doing yet.
Taylor Loren: And the second thing would be we'd really choose what we create based on a lot of data. So search, like I mentioned, that would be a huge thing. So we will look at search trends, seeing different keywords that are starting to come up and people are starting to search for before they really explode. That can tell you so much and give you a lot of good ideas about what to post, what types of campaigns to run, looking and seeing at the blog posts that we do have, which ones are rising in traffic each month, which ones are decreasing. That will tell you a lot about what people are looking for as well.
Taylor Loren: And then we also look at our product roadmap and seeing what different features we're going to have for leasing. And then ideally I love to kind of start marketing that before we even release the product at all. So for example, just warming people up to different concepts or ideas months before we actually launched them, because if we know we're coming out with a ton of user-generated content features, but our audience isn't really aware yet about why UGC is important or even what it is, we'll start to create content around UGC months before the release. So then when it is ready to come out, we don't have to do that education element already. People are already aware of what UGC is, and they're excited that there's now a tool to help them manage it. That was a really long-winded answer.
Charlie Grinnell: No, no, no, that, that was all so awesome. I mean I think about how it's just such a smart strategy. Being able to kind of plant seeds ahead of product releases using this content marketing engine is wicked smart. And my only followup question to that is have you had instances where maybe there was a feature and you guys created a piece of content and you learn something and then you change that feature or you pivoted that feature. I'd be super curious to hear if even if that's a thing.
Taylor Loren: Yeah, definitely. I think one of the ones that sticks out in my mind would be ... well we run all of our features like through beta testing and stuff like that. But probably when we came out with Instagram stories scheduling, I think we launched it in January last year and originally it was supposed to launch I think in October. We had some campaigns that were ready with partners around that and the feature came out, was basically ready, and they didn't have the ability to add text or URL.
Taylor Loren: So you were just planning out. You'd add your media to get notified, but it didn't have any ability to copy a caption or what I think is the main use case, which is being able to put your link in. So that came out. I was just very insistent that in order for people to find this feature really valuable based on the feedback we've gotten from the content and what people are actually using stories for and their main goals, which is usually driving traffic, that we really needed to have that ability.
Taylor Loren: So we actually pushed back the product and it came out two or three months later just so we could add that in. And then it was a huge success. So we ended up having to still move forward with the partner campaign around Instagram stories without the feature, but that's okay. If we had to wait to have a feature in order to create content about an area, then we would be waiting all the time. So, we definitely operate like we're just like, we're going to just talk about something. And if it's in our industry and then build up the SEO credit or educate people about it and then one day when we have a feature that will fit with that, then that'll be great. So like we were talking about Instagram stories and doing so much stories content long before we ever had an Instagram story scheduler.
Charlie Grinnell: That makes a lot of sense to me. And I can see now as someone who has consumed Later's content for a long time, I can see how you've been strategically planting those seeds and I bet on them. So yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Okay. Let's switch gears a little bit here. I've seen and I'm sure people that follow you have seen that Later is starting to expand into covering new topics such as TikTok. How do you approach expanding into a net new topic and again in such a competitive space?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, that's a great question because it's so top of mind for me right now. And what I keep telling people, which is not helpful, is our approach is let's just do what we did with Instagram. When we first started all of our content marketing around Instagram marketing, people weren't searching for it. People weren't looking up blog posts, people weren't writing blog posts at least about Instagram marketing in your business. And so we were really one of the first people to do that, which allowed us ... that was great, first to market and the content angle is really helpful and what made us grow. But now we're going to go into TikTok and we're not the very, very first. We're definitely probably going to be one of the first of the bigger media outlets, but there are other people there. There's other content that we're going to be up against.
Taylor Loren: So I think that if you can't be first, then you have to be the best. And so that's probably our strategy is that all the content we want to create about TikTok, it needs to be super informative, super educational, really high quality. So people anytime, whether they're interacting with a blog post or they're watching a course or a webinar with us about TikTok, they're getting so much value from it that they just equate later equals TikTok source. That would be our goals and I think that you can do that with the quality of your content and inside of the part and then it benefits everything and you'll eventually end up, even if you're not the first search result right away. If you have a lot of people that are engaging with your high-quality content, then eventually that is going to make you move up to be in that number one search result.
Charlie Grinnell: I guess what you're describing is a land grab or a real estate grab early.
Taylor Loren: Yeah, for sure.
Charlie Grinnell: So smart.
Taylor Loren: That's what we're focused on right now. Hopefully none of my competitors are listening to your podcast. Yeah, it's definitely doing that land grab and investing in it, but I think it's also when I did that with Instagram when we started, that was four and a half years ago, so I think it's a test for me. Most marketers, if you have success of one thing you're like can I ever achieve that same success again? Was it just a fluke or did I actually know what I was doing?
Charlie Grinnell: I agree with that. I think the one thing I would ... my follow up would be, yeah, what would be your advice to marketers, right? You kind of have this strategy of land grab and if we're not the first, we're going to be the best. We could be second and then be the best and then get to number one. But are there any other strategies that come to mind that you think would work for other marketers?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, I think zoning in on what your niche is as much as you can is really good. So I think for later, for years we only talked about Instagram and that was our thing. It wasn't all of social media. It wasn't Instagram and Facebook. It was just Instagram. So whatever your company is, if it's a natural beauty company, you're super all-in on all things natural beauty, but you can go even deeper into being like okay you're the expert on natural skin moisturizers or natural skincare or for whatever. I mean that's such a generic answer though. People are always just like find your niche.
Charlie Grinnell: Well yeah. My follow up question then would be what is truly niching down to you? And I think some people talk about niching but then you see them doing like a bunch of different things. What do you think about that?
Taylor Loren: I think when you're creating a niche, it really comes down to knowing who your target market is and really knowing who your customer is. And I feel lucky, for me at Later, our target market is basically myself. All of my demographics like I fit, it's just urban millennials with this much marketing experience, that kind of thing. I feel like because of that I intuitively can just understand sometimes that things are going to be a hit with our audience or not.
Taylor Loren: But if you aren't in your target market like a lot of people are, it's just really trying to get in the head of those personas and understanding your customers to the best of your ability and really work, and following absolutely everybody in that niche and seeing what other people are doing, what are the people who are following them doing and just basically creeping as much as you can within your specific niche where you just know it inside and out.
Charlie Grinnell: I'd love to dig a little bit deeper into that. So those tactics that you just mentioned in terms of understanding, those would work for when brands are first starting out. Is there anything that you do today to get deeper that you think would be useful sharing?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, honestly it's pretty much a big weak spot in our company. We actually don't have any official persona development or anything like that. We have some general ideas and a few data points to go off of, but we really haven't built out those true marketing personas. So I think that's definitely an area for us to improve upon. So I should really be listening to other people's advice in that area.
Charlie Grinnell: Makes sense. Makes sense. Let's switch gears a little bit here and talk about, we're obviously currently living through a global pandemic and people are spending more time at home and online. What do you think the opportunity is for long-form content? I think this is something that we've seen obviously like the streaming giants do and with people having more and more time, how do you think that fits in for content marketers?
Taylor Loren: I mean I don't want to say it's a good opportunity because obviously it's a horrible situation but it's so apparent right now. Brands are really investing in brand affinity content. So for people who aren't as familiar with brand affinity, it's something that we started to really care about at Later in the last six months or so. And if you look at Wistia, they really made the concept of brand affinity a lot more popular. So instead of looking at just general brand awareness, it's looking at like how deep are those connections that you're building with your audience.
Taylor Loren: And one of the best ways to build brand affinity is having people spend more time with your brand and having them spend really focused time with your brand. So podcasts, long-form videos, long-form blog posts, all of those types of things that people are spending a decent amount of time actually engaging with your content, they're going to feel a lot stronger and have a connection to your brand. So right now with internet usage increasing, people are spending a lot more time with content.
Taylor Loren: This is a good time to work on retention from a marketing perspective. And that's just really just providing value for your brand and staying in touch with your followers. So even if lots of people's businesses might've slowed right now or some have maybe stopped altogether, if you know that ... I think about, for example, people in the events industry or the wedding industry and stuff like that. They know there will come a time when their services are needed again. So it's like what can you do in this lull to make sure that you're staying top of mind so that when things do get back to normal, you're still at the front of people’s minds.
Taylor Loren: So they need to make that purchase decision. So long-form content is such a good way to do that. We started an IGTV series at Later. It's called Screen Time. That's probably our big brand affinity initiative because it's a five to 10-minute video that we're producing every single week on that people are going to be spending time with us through a video. I think podcasts like this one are another great one to do as well. It's just really anything that's more than a quick social media post or something where people are really engaging and feel like they're like a part of your brand or really understanding the value they see from it. So I think now, to answer your question, now more than ever brand affinity is so important with marketing.
Charlie Grinnell: Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I've been having a lot of conversations with marketers and there is definitely two camps here, right? There's the people who are very performance-focused and then there's the other side who are very brand focused. I'd be curious to get your take on are there any brands that you think are doing a really great job that are doubling down on content to be able to continue to maintain that brand and that sense of community?
Taylor Loren: I think that Fohr, F-O-H-R, they're an influencer marketing platform, they've done an amazing job with content marketing. I would say even we've partnered with them on a couple of campaigns at Later before. But they didn't have a huge brand marketing presence before COVID. They had a really strong brand, but for example, they don't have a very active blog. I don't think they're investing a lot in typical content marketing activities. But what they did is basically, which kudos to them, I have no idea how they did this so fast, but when this was all happening, they put up an influence in the age of COVID-19 landing page right away with resources. They came out with emergency podcasts, videos, reports, so much content because influencers were freaking out that all their campaigns were getting cancelled.
Taylor Loren: They didn't know what was happening. It was a huge area of concern. So they just went to meet their community and give them what they needed. It wasn't a sell. It wasn't anything like that. It was just trying to help out their audience, which is influencers, as much as possible. And so I think they've done a really, really good job with that content. You know they hosted a webinar with a few different influencers and it was a Q&A, and again it's nothing ... The quality isn't like this super fancy webinar but what made it so special is just the content and the value that they were providing was so needed. They've done a really good job at that. Again, I feel like the fact that you can push that out days after people are being like what we have to stay home?
Taylor Loren: My team, it took me a week at least to process that we had to not be business as usual right now. So the ability to somehow without even processing be able to action all of that was really impressive. I also think Bando, on their Instagram is @ShopBando, B-A-N-D-O. They did a really great job on social of being really conscious with their audience and they clearly know their audience. They clearly knew that a lot of their audiences probably laid off or something like that right now. And their founder actually had her book come out the week after really everything hit the fan and they still had to promote a book launch. That's a really difficult time to promote a book launch. But they did it in such a thoughtful manner and they were so considerate in their copy and literally calling out things like, "We know this is maybe not a good time to shop for all, but if you want to dah, dah, dah, dah."
Taylor Loren: It was just really, really well done. So I think that they've done a good job too. And I mean the book became a New York Times bestseller, so obviously they were successful with all their promotional efforts too. But it was done in a really thoughtful way and I think that's something that's really hard to pull off.
Charlie Grinnell: Yeah, I think one of the things, and those were both great examples. I think one of the things that I've been thinking about in talking to our clients and friends who work in marketing is whether you were agile or not before this, you are now. This thing has kind of just forced you as a marketer because everything has just been so turned upside down. And so it's interesting to see. It's different in every company, right, because there's so many different operational implications and staff members are going through certain things. But it is cool to see some of these brands be like yep, no problem. And you're like, whoa, I am in such awe of how you were able to do that. So that's really, really cool. Thanks for sharing that.
Taylor Loren: And I mean at Later, I was feeling so on top of the world. I was like oh my goodness, I have the entire quarters’ calendar, content calendar done all before the quarter even starts. I was so proud of myself. And then literally had to throw everything in the trash and start all over again. So I'm sure there's so many people who are dealing with that too, so.
Charlie Grinnell: Yeah. Everyone's dealing with it. And also I think the thing that I've heard a lot of is it's the timing thing. It's like, okay, I know I need to be planning, but for what and when. And so engaging in scenario planning, sure, that's good advice. But it's like, is the scenario a month from now, three months from now, six months from now? And so I think that's something that a lot of people are struggling with as well. A couple more things here I want to ask you. So there's no shortage of content in the world. There's stats all over the place talking about how much videos ... I think it's like 300 hours a minute worth of video is uploaded onto YouTube.
Charlie Grinnell: There's hundreds of millions of posts on Instagram each day. And there's obviously a ton of innovation happening around content marketing as well. You're someone who I look to and I know many others look to as leading the way or your opinion is very valued. What gets you excited in terms of innovation around content marketing or where content marketing is headed?
Taylor Loren: It's such a tricky question because a month ago I would've said events because I think there's so much ... and for example Later con is our annual conference and it's fully digital but we still film it all in person to have that really high quality of content. So even though it's shared virtually, there was a huge IRL component to it. So I get really excited about how do you create these really high production experiences for people that can be shared virtually. So that's interesting to me right now. And you know, lots of events now. They're moving virtual and how do you have a fully 100% virtual event where everyone is filming everything from their own homes and not from a studio that they go into, especially when you're having to work with famous talent and stuff like that. That can make it even more difficult.
Taylor Loren: So I think that I'm really excited to see what Create Cultivate does because they're having a virtual summit on May 2nd. So I'm excited to see what that looks like because they're such leaders in the cool conference and events space. I think that will be really interesting to see. Also just TikTok gets me so excited.
Charlie Grinnell: Of course.
Taylor Loren: And I think that that, we're already seeing how TikTok is trickling down and it's changing how other content types are created. You see its effect on Instagram already. And I think that that will only continue just in the terms of having some lighthearted content, people not taking themselves so seriously or needing everything to be so perfect. And yeah, I'm really interested to see how long-form content continues to expand and grow, and just yeah, seeing where that goes as brands.
Taylor Loren: I get really excited about like MailChimp has their own basic version of a Netflix TV show. So does Wistia. People are creating these whole basically TV shows as a brand, and not needing ... You have your own distribution platform. If you have your own audience and if you have a really big email list and all that stuff, it's like you can basically become a media company as a brand. So that's pretty exciting to me. And I would say that Later has basically halfway there. We could basically be a media company at this point too.
Charlie Grinnell: Yeah, I mean with the amount of content that you guys pump out at the level of quality that you do, I question how you do it oftentimes. So I completely agree. What's one, if you had to say one thing for content marketers to keep top of mind given where we're at today, what would you say to them?
Taylor Loren: Have empathy. Be empathetic towards your audience and what they're going through, or being empathetic towards your team and what they're going through as well. For example, I don't have kids, but I have someone on my team who has kids and is pregnant. And so even just there was something ... I think we used the word bored in some sort of copy and malice, like I really don't think we should be implying that people are bored right now because I'm so stressed out having my kid here all the time and stuff like that. So I think that's just like ... I was like, "Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm only thinking about things through my own lens and not through the lens of all these other people and what their life things are."
Taylor Loren: So it's kind of basic, but I think sometimes it's easy to get caught up in our own circumstances and just really trying to be empathetic to what everyone is going through and how the situation is so different for everyone right now, and just trying to keep marketing being human to human interaction basically.
Charlie Grinnell: Yep. Couldn't agree more. And I think that's very well said. One thing that I always ask people and I always ... I'm trying to get an idea from people of where they get their information from, how do you stay up to date with everything? What are you reading? Who are you following? I'd love for you just to kind of talk about that because I think a lot of people, again, like I said, look to you as someone who is kind of leading the way. What does the leader look at?
Taylor Loren: I make Google alerts. I have Google alerts set up for different keywords and yeah, I mean I honestly, I should read a lot more than I do. I'm getting almost all of my news just from social media. I follow a lot of people on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok, on everything. That's everything from following the 15-year-olds on TikTok and who they're dating up to the CMOs at companies that I really admire. So yeah, I think I just rely on social media for a lot of my news.
Charlie Grinnell: So for everybody listening out there, go lurk Taylor's accounts and see who she's following, because that'll give you the goods. Okay.
Taylor Loren: Yeah. I'm following like 2300 people on Instagram. I just looked. That's a lot.
Charlie Grinnell: Well I mean yeah, you got to be able to consume a lot to be able to stay on top of it.
Taylor Loren: Yeah. I also like the ... I would say probably my favorite newsletter outside of the Later newsletter of course, is Buzzfeed has a newsletter called Please Like Me, and it's written by this girl, Steph McNeal I think is her last name. It comes every Friday and it's just kind of a synopsis of what's going on with influencers right now. And it's from a cultural level. So I like reading that one. My name Twin Taylor, Lorenza. So exact same name. Hers just has a za at the end of it. She writes for the New York Times about internet culture. I think following her is a really good idea. I mean as much as you can follow the culture of the internet and then you'll be able to get so many ideas just from seeing what's happening just on people's social regular lives. And then you can be like, okay, well if there's a trend that's happening for people connecting just friend to friend or user to user, eventually that will trickle down in some way for brands too.
Charlie Grinnell: Absolutely. So speaking of following people, where's the best place for people to find you online?
Taylor Loren: Yeah, follow me on Instagram. My handle is @Taylor.Loren, L-O-R-E-N. Yeah, Instagram is the best channel, but I had the same handle everywhere I think. I'm on TikTok but I don't really share any marketing and stuff on TikTok. I share a lot of candle videos. That's because my-
Charlie Grinnell: You're a candle influencer.
Taylor Loren: Yes. That's become my niche on TikTok. I don't know why. People love candle videos. But yeah, my main channels yeah would be Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn.
Charlie Grinnell: Cool.
Taylor Loren: Yeah.
Charlie Grinnell: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your insight and I'm excited to continue to watch the amazing content that you and the team at Later keep producing.
Taylor Loren: Thank you so much. I'm so happy we had this chat.